STALKING JOE CLIFFORD

                         JOE CLIFFORD (http://www.joeclifford.com/) IS THE AUTHOR OF THE BOOKS JUNKIE LOVE AND WAKE THE UNDERTAKER. JOE IS ALSO EDITOR IN CHIEF OF THE E-ZINE FLASH FICTION OFFENSIVE.  http://www.outofthegutteronline.com/

B.O.C.

JOE, READING A LITTLE ABOUT YOU, IT’S SAFE TO SAY YOU'VE HAD FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE WITH REALISTIC CRIME STORIES. NOT TOO MANY CRIME WRITERS CAN LAY CLAIM TO THAT CAN THEY?


JOE

I’m not sure. One of my good writing buddies out in SF, Joe Loya, wrote a terrific memoir about his past life as a bank robber. The Man Who Outgrew His Prison Cell: Confessions of a Bank Robber. My pal (and co-editor of FFO), Tom Pitts, was a thieving junkie like me. Of course, this could say more about me and whom I choose to hang around with than anything else. Which is really the issue. I’ve always preferred the company of the marginalized to the conventional. There are superfluous layers that get stripped away the lower you go. I deplore comedies of manners. Fuck Jane Austen.

B.OC.

 SO WHO ARE YOUR INFLUENCES AS FAR AS WRITERS?

JOE

Salinger and Kerouac immediately spring to mind. Can’t be a crime writer and not appreciate Chandler. Hammet. Day Keene. Westlake. Goodis. Willeford. Patricia Highsmith. My new favorite is Hilary Davidson. There are countless peers in the crime genre writing today, way too many to mention. But you can open any issue of Thuglit, Shotgun Honey, All Due Respect, etc., and you’ll find them. Close your eyes and point. I mean, this could prove to be a phase, and maybe a lot of these guys, myself included, won’t make it. But I get the feeling that in 10, 20 years the guys populating the pages of these journals will not only still be around but staking claims and forging new ground, proving luminaries in the field.


B.O.C.

TELL EVERYONE ABOUT YOUR LATEST PROJECTS.


JOE

My latest novel, LAMENTATION, is a mystery/thriller set in the Northeast, which uses the recent Sandusky case to explore fractured relations between brothers. Think Russell Banks’s Affliction meets Hilary Davidson’s The Damage Done, with a heavy dose of pop culture and drugs. And I also am part of the new Gutter Books, signing and editing other authors. My first project, Will Viharo’s Love Stories Are Too Violent for Me, comes out soon. It’s an amazing book (that’s already been optioned by Christian Slater). I really love writing and editing, pretty much equally. Two sides of one delightful coin… (That’s from a meme I saw once.)

B.O.C.

 BEING EDITOR IN CHIEF OF FLASH FICTION OFFENSIVE, DO YOU EVER RUN ACROSS STORIES ALMOST HIT THE MARK AND HOW DO YOU HANDLE REJECTION PERSONALLY? 


JOE

Fuck, man, this is the worst part about editing, the having to say no. The thing is, when I took over editing from David Barber, he left me with some words of wisdom that I took to heart. He said not to be too exclusive, that e zines like FFO are where a lot of writers get their start. Hell, it was one of the places where I got my start. You want to put out a quality product, of course, and I think our bar is pretty high. But I also do my damnedest to get in folks who really want in. If they can take criticism and are willing to work with me, we usually succeed. I pledged early on when I got the gig that I would personally respond to every submission. Which gets time consuming, honestly. But writers—even of the ones who don’t do it for me—pour their hearts into writing the best piece they can and they deserve at least that. I don’t believe anyone sets out to write a “bad” story. So I strive to work with them in helping make their piece the best it can be. Part of this desire, to use psychological parlance, is obviously transference. I hated when I’d bust my ass writing a story and get back a “Dear Writer” rejection with grammatically errors. It was like Fuck you. I spent 60 hours writing this, and you can’t even bother to spell check your rejection to me?

B.O.C.

WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE SOMEONE STARTING OUT WRITING? 


JOE

Stop. Seriously. It’s not a great career path. If you write “for yourself,” terrific. Have at it. Keep your journals. Have a good giggle when you look back someday. But if you mean write as in “for a job,” it’s not easy. And it’s not fun. There’s very little money. People really don’t give a shit. I mean, it’s not their fault. Most people have to be told what to like (see E.L. James). You can write a terrific short story. And so what? Same thing with a novel. And writing a novel isn’t something you do on the weekend. It takes years and years and years. And it’s heartbreaking. You take years. An editor will say no after reading a paragraph. It’s the nature of the game. So much goes into making a book a success—things that go far beyond talent and good story—luck, tapping into housewives deepest desires (because they are the ones who buy books), etc. And the whole while you will watch shit—and I mean shit—that is inferior, written by some dumpy Reality TV star pass you by while you sit at Starbucks opting for the Tall because you can’t splurge on two Ventis (I think that’s what the fucking things are called) in a day. Now, having said all that, if you are still here, and you haven’t been discouraged, and you write because that is just what you have to do, and you refuse to be dissuaded…then you do all that you can do: you keep writing and you don’t let anyone or anything dissuade you—not a lack of funds, or a boy/girlfriend who wants you to “get a real job,” or parents who are ashamed. You keep at it, and you sit your ass in the chair, and you listen to feedback, and know when to discard it (rarely) and when to take it (usually the case). And here’s the good news: if you keep at it, and you are good enough, you will get published. Someday. You’ll be broke and bitter, pissed off more than likely, but you’ll have a fucking book out. Yay.

B.O.C.

 WHAT DEAD CELEBRITY WOULD YOU RESURRECT AND WHAT USE WOULD YOU HAVE FOR THEM? 


JOE

Marilyn Monroe. And I think we know what I’d use her for. Holy fuck that sounded creepy. I mean, she’d be alive and vibrant Marilyn, not all decomposed and shit, right? I don’t know. I’m kinda freaking myself out. Maybe Salinger or Jack, I guess. Although I think both would fail to live up to my mythology. Sorry. I’m sticking with Marilyn and we've recreating Seven Year Itch, like every day.

B.O.C.

I HAVE TO SAY, SOME OF THE STORIES I’VE READ BY YOU REALLY REMIND OF ROSS MACDONALD IN STYLE, I THINK THEY COULD BE PUBLISHED IN THE NEW YORKER. DO YOU FEEL THERE’S A DIFFERENCE IN GENRE FICTION AND LITERATURE? 


JOE

Fuck the New Yorker. Bloated, boring crap. And I can safely say that because there ain’t a chance in monkey ball hell they’d ever publish me. Which is fine. I mean, I like Alice Munro enough. I guess. But I've read the fiction in that over hyped rag. I couldn't recall the plot in a single goddamn one of them. A bunch of jackasses sitting around a dinner table. I don’t get it. Then again, I doubt the NY gives a shit what I think. I look at the difference between genre and literary fiction that same way David Lee Roth described the two incarnations of Van Halen (genre being the DLR of the equation): “Classic Van Halen…makes you wanna drink, dance and screw… [T]he new [Sammy Hagar] Van Halen encourages you to drink milk, drive a Nissan and have a relationship.” (Ever hear the DLR story about the boogie van, groupies, and BK onion rings?)

B.O.C.

GIVE US AN INSIGHT OF WHAT GOES ON WHEN YOU DO READINGS AT NOIR AT THE BAR AND OTHER PLACES. IT SOUNDS LIKE IT COULD BE FUN.

JOE

The best part about the reading Tom Pitts and I just gave at Noir at the Bar in L.A. is we finally got to meet all these people with we've been talking to for years—Eric Beetner, Seth Harwood, Holly West, Josh Stallings, et. al—face to face. Up until now they've been binary code. These are my peers and the writers I respect, so getting to meet them in person and being able to share the bill with them was pretty awesome.


B.O.C.

 WHAT IS YOUR TOP TEN CRIME/NOIR MOVIES OF ALL TIME? 


JOE

Well, this could change depending on the day or if I thought more deeply about it. But here in no particular order and certainly leaving something out…

Memento, Casablanca, Usual Suspects, Detour, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang for the films, and for the books The Killer Inside Me, The Long Goodbye, Home is the Sailor, The Damage Done, and hell let’s go with Crime and Punishment.

B.O.C.

OKAY JOE. I GOT THIS WEIRD PHONE CALL OUT OF THE BLUE, NO NAME OR NUMBER ATTACHED TO IT, BUT A DARK MUFFLED VOICE WANTED ME TO ASK YOU WHAT YOUR FAVORITE JERRY LEWIS MOVIE IS?

JOE

Don’t be ashamed. I love Taylor Swift.